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Dance Festivals are The Best and Worst Places in The World

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An open letter to the electronic music community, penned by Seth Troxler himself. This article was originally published on THUMP UK.
 
The current state of dance music is crazy. It’s so flooded. Everywhere you look, there’s a new festival and a new party. I lived in New York City for four months recently, and there were about 50 Resident Advisor parties on one weekend. I mean, what the fuck? It’s the same with festivals now, too. Everyone is going into the boutique festival game and whilst I think it’s cool that people are going out and enjoying themselves, where do we draw that line over quality?
 
In light of this craziness, here’s my take on festivals, clubbing, and not being a c*nt.
 
FIRST OFF, GOING TO DANCE FESTIVALS IS NOTHING LIKE GOING CLUBBING
 
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I was in Switzerland recently, and a promoter complained to me that there’s a big problem in the country’s club scene because of how many festivals happen around Switzerland. He said that in the summer, it’s hard to get people to come to your club. People would rather spend their money going to festivals abroad, than going to clubs in their home cities. 
 
But that dude missed something: dance festivals and dance clubs are not the same. At all. This new generation care much more for the festival experience than the club experience. Kids who like dance music now have grown up with no first hand experience of original club culture; techno, house, even rave in the 90s. Festivals are their “dance music experience” now.  Festivals are fucking holidays. 
 
EDM FESTIVALS SPOON-FEED US BULLSHIT —AND WE CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF IT
 
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When I get booked to play these massive festivals in the US, I often walk around them to see what they’re all about—and 90% of the time, it’s fucking horrible. We’re breeding a generation of impatient, annoying festival kids. I say impatient because the patience of the clubber is different to the patience of the festival-goer. At these festivals, you get it all on a platter up-front.
 
Lasers! LED screens! Pyrotechnics! DROPS! Boom! Bang! CAKE IN YOUR FUCKING FACE!”—wait, nah man. That’s not clubbing, that’s a concert of cunts. Just, go out for a night in a dark room. Be cool. 
 
I was talking to a good friend of mine Craig Richards, and he said that back when he started going to clubs, there was even more patience: you’d vibe on the dance floor for hours, with space for your body and everyone else’s. Now people consider a “good event” something that’s really packed with bodies and “energy:”  energy-packed-extreme! That’s not clubbing, man.
 
Clubbing is a culture, not a few messy hours in the middle of the night, but EDM culture doesn't promote that. If you’re Suzie who just graduated high school in Florida, you go to Ultra and think “Holy shit , Avicii is about to blow my panties off.” 
 
LET'S FACE IT, EDM DJS ARE THE WORST PEOPLE EVER
 
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Speaking of Avicii, Avicii is a c*nt. When he went to the hospital during Ultra in Miami, my tour manager Alex was with the nurse assigned to him. The fucking c*nt wouldn’t even speak to the nurse. She would have to tell his manager what to tell him, and they were sitting next to each other. You’re in the fucking hospital. You can’t talk to a nurse who’s trying to look after you? The insane stardom syndrome of these massive EDM DJs pisses me off. 
 
It’s not just a personal thing either. Their music is just shit.
 
I’ve seen Steve Aoki play at these festivals, and he kept turning the music off, jumping around onstage, saying “This is my new single! Out next week!” and playing the next song. You are not a fucking DJ. You’re an overpaid, untalented, cake-throwing c*nt. My best friend Frank from high school is now my PA, and he’s in the Little League Hall of Fame for being a crazy good pitcher. We’re going to get Aoki with that cake, man. I’m coming for you, Aoki. 
 
EDM IS NOT A CULTURE, BECAUSE IT GIVES NOTHING BACK
 
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Look, I’m generally really happy for everyone. I try to keep positive about all this craziness. But if you’re not critical of the culture you live in, and love, then you’re doing yourself and everyone around you a disservice. EDM plays host to a profound delusion about what electronic music and dance culture are. It’s ridiculous music, made by ridiculous, un-credible people. 
 
In all honesty, I find it profoundly sad. We’re trying to move on and be a real force of culture and conversation—a wider genre recognised as having real cultural depth—but EDM is wiping that slate. For being taken seriously in a musical sense, that’s frustrating.  A lot of my work— especially with my label Tuskegee—is a revolt of that, and an attempt to historically legitimise our culture. That’s my passion. The rave changed me, and I want kids to be able to experience that tomorrow.
 
WHAT WE NEED IS PLUR—NO, REALLY
 
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Image courtesy of Red Bull Music Academy
 
In the US, there’s this term PLUR. It’s got a crappy reputation now, but it stems from the values of original club culture: respect, being positive, communal unity. Once you have those values, they spread in how you conduct yourself and view the world. 
 
I was in a club recently and there was this guy there with one of the original Paradise Garage tee shirts on. We got talking, and he said the major difference with dance music now and back then, is back then there was real diversity. You had social, class, race, sexual diversity—and that’s cool. That’s what dance music culture is about. Everyone under one roof, exploring their own and each others identities. A celebration of something more, something outside of received norms. Not having a giant glow stick and getting on it.
 
The Red Bull Music Academy street party for Paradise Garage and Larry Levan Way last weekend was beautiful for that exact reason. You have a huge block party in a huge city, full of white, black and Asian people, young and old. Nobody looked wasted, and hardly anyone was on their damn phones. They were just dancing and singing together to beautiful music, for hours and hours. That is club culture.
 
THERE'S A FINE LINE BETWEEN FREEDOM AND IDIOCY
 
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Straight from Eric Prydz's Twitter, during Ultra. Sorry.
 
I see some fucking crazy shit in clubs, and some fucking sad shit at festivals. It’s such a fine line.  Like, that photo Eric Prdyz tweeted from Ultra? Of a girl doing lines of coke off another girls naked vagina? At a festival, that’s gross. At Berghain, it would be kind of hot. In Berghain, that shit stands for freedom. At Ultra, it stands for excess and trash. 
 
The first time I ever played at Berghain, there was this big bear of a dude in assless leather chaps and a leather harness on the dance floor. I was playing "Yellow" and when he bent over, this other guy came over and starts eating his ass. Everyone around them was just dancing and being all cool. I was like “……..that’s interesting”. But that’s a revolt against the world. That’s the freedom of the club. Falling in mud and getting cake thrown at you? That’s not freedom. You’re an idiot listening to shitty music. Just, stay classy kids.
 
EDM IS NOT ABOUT MUSIC, IT'S ABOUT MONEY
 
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If you’re a band, a DJ, whatever, you’re only as big as how many people you can bring to a club or a festival.  EDM has really changed what commercial music consumption is. These purpose built clubs inside massive Las Vegas hotels? The music is shit, but they’re selling thousands of bottles of alcohol a night to rich idiots. Kids today would rather go out on a night out, listening to whatever music, and getting on it, than pay $40 to going to a rock show that ends at midnight. Everyone wants more, all the time. 
 
You can produce a huge festival and not be shitty, though. Look at TomorrowLand in Belgium. It’s a huge festival, with almost the same acts at somewhere like Electric Daisy Carnival, yet so much quality and care is put into creating an experience. Electric Daisy Carnival? It’s a stage in a parking lot, full of loads of kids with fucking suckers in their mouths and gas masks on, listening to horrible music.
 
To me, the perfect festival is a Burning Man, or Shangri-La at Glastonbury. There’s music, but it’s not just about the music. It’s about experimentation, and the environment in which you experience music.
 
BUT, WHEN THE BUBBLE BURSTS, WE'LL HAVE A NEW GENERATION OF DANCE FANS
 
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Not everyone’s a lifer in this world, but what separates the wheat from the chaff is intellect. Intellect is a true indication of taste. Some smart kids are standing in these EDM festivals, in the mud and heat and sick, and they’re thinking, “Yeah, this is fine for now, but this can’t be it forever.” There’s got to be something better—but they have to find it for themselves. That’s the next generation right there.

 

 

 

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Flojo Newbie

Flojo

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A lot of that is all over the place but I agree with this part.

 

I was in a club recently and there was this guy there with one of the original Paradise Garage tee shirts on. We got talking, and he said the major difference with dance music now and back then, is back then there was real diversity. You had social, class, race, sexual diversity—and that’s cool. That’s what dance music culture is about. Everyone under one roof, exploring their own and each others identities. A celebration of something more, something outside of received norms. Not having a giant glow stick and getting on it.

 

The Red Bull Music Academy street party for Paradise Garage and Larry Levan Way last weekend was beautiful for that exact reason. You have a huge block party in a huge city, full of white, black and Asian people, young and old. Nobody looked wasted, and hardly anyone was on their damn phones. They were just dancing and singing together to beautiful music, for hours and hours. That is club culture.

 

 

I'm sick to death of going to House events and being interrogated about why I'm there purely because I'm black. I know more about the music than the bandwagoners there, have paid for a valid ticket, aren't doing anything indecent yet I'm being made to justify why I should be there? Some of these promoters need to realise where the fuck this music came from and what type of people were responsible for it.

 

The d*ckhead that owns Parklife and Warehouse Project being a prime example, I'm dying to go to Parklife this year but after the way I was turfed on NYD at Warehouse Project I can't do it out of principle. A lot of these promoters want to point to the heritage of the music and culture as and when it suits but in all honesty these events are little more than a money making exercise for them.

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zeke Newbie

zeke

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I agree with a lot of this article tbh and couldnt agree more with flojo.

 

Been goin SPW since day dot and went my first WHP in 2008 and still to this day get interrogated on the way in.

 

My Boys got knocked back even with tickets on boxing night a few years back @ Sankeys and Ive only ever got in if I was with a female.

 

Last time I went Sankeys with a female and after gettin through 3 lots of security and bare screw facing bouncers, the promoter on the door wants the single me out amongst all the ket faced white yutes and ask me what DJs Id specifically came to see, after I answered he signaled to the head doorman that it was cool and they let me in.

 

Like flojo said I had to justify why I was there by diplaying my knowledge of the DJs that were on.

 

I only get this bullshit in England.

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The sankeys interigation :lol:

That sacha dude comes across as a right prick tbh, the racial undertones that come across when hes waffling on are glaring

What happened on nyd flojo?

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Flojo Newbie

Flojo

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I agree with a lot of this article tbh and couldnt agree more with flojo.

 

Been goin SPW since day dot and went my first WHP in 2008 and still to this day get interrogated on the way in.

 

My Boys got knocked back even with tickets on boxing night a few years back @ Sankeys and Ive only ever got in if I was with a female.

 

Last time I went Sankeys with a female and after gettin through 3 lots of security and bare screw facing bouncers, the promoter on the door wants the single me out amongst all the ket faced white yutes and ask me what DJs Id specifically came to see, after I answered he signaled to the head doorman that it was cool and they let me in.

 

Like flojo said I had to justify why I was there by diplaying my knowledge of the DJs that were on.

 

I only get this bullshit in England.

 

That is pretty much a carbon copy of what happened to me the first time I went to WHP.

 

Get to the front and the bouncer says to my boy aggressively "Who are you here to see?"

 

He's knowledgeable about the music but was caught off guard so he was speechless for a second. I stepped in and said Martinez Bros but he wouldn't let up until my boy said a few names, we got in but I was confused as fuck as there were shitloads of people around us going in without being asked.

 

We went on NYD this year, between the two of us we spent £200 on tickets, petrol and hotel but were in and out of Manny within 1 hour because we got turfed.

 

Whilst we were waiting we had a few brief conversations with some randoms, one of which I'll never forget because he was a Spurs fan who had come straight from Old Trafford that was fucked off his face on poppers, liquor and whatever else. I was looking at him thinking he aint getting in.

 

We get to the front and the bouncer asks us who we're here to see, we tell him. He asks where we came from, we tell him we've drove down from Bradford. He says no worries and lets us through but tells us to go to the side, my boy thought they were gonna put the sniffer dogs on us because they did it to him last time he went without me.

 

They just directed us towards the exit and said you can't get in because you've been acting suspicious in the queue. The guy who was off his nut and struggling to speak coherently got in FFS.

 

We are now outside with two tickets we've paid £100 for that are worthless and a hotel we've paid for that we don't need. There are about 15 people who've been turfed around the same time stood near us. 12 of them are black and they all got the same reason, the other 3 were white and had been caught with drugs on them when searched.

 

A white guy who's a tout outside WHP said to me barefaced 'did you get knocked back? These lot are racist as fuck, I've seen the same thing outside here every week. Loads of black lads getting knocked back for no reason'

 

I then go on twitter and see the owner of WHP, Sacha talking about people with 'gucci man bags' not getting into WHP. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out what he means, I saw a lot of people get turned turned away but Gucci manbags isn't what they had in common. 

 

The thing is he owns WHP, Parklife, Outlook and Unknown festival. He puts on the biggest festivals about, but after seeing some of the shit he says and being treat like that at WHP I'm not going to anything he does. It might sound foolish but I just can't. I later found out he also owns the security company so no doubt has a lot of influence on the door policy. 

 

I am dying to see Pusha T at Parklife but I've decided I'm not going. There's a certain irony about a guy like Pusha T being on the lineup of an event put together by a company with a questionable door policy, if Pusha was trying to get in there's a fair chance he'd just be seen as another ni....person with a gucci manbag.

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zeke Newbie

zeke

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Ive been told plenty times about scousers and black guys gettin knocked back from Sankeys.

 

Double whammy for me LOL.

 

I dont even risk it for the bait events in there.

 

Usually do the lowkey ones like fiesta n that.

 

Never had a problem at WHP cos Im usually on g list for that, but Sankeys is a next ting SMH.

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Kuffir Newbie

Kuffir

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Agree with a lot of that although the comments about Berghain and how one thing is "Cool" here is a perfect example of the widespread snobbery in house music, which is perfect seeing as it ties exactly to what you guys are talking about.

 

Personally I'm yet to go to a mainstream (white) house event although like you guys I consider myself very clued up. I tend to go to the more underground (black) parties but I've been wanting to hit a big thing for a minute. 

 

Generally reading about them experiences flojos in particular makes me feel sick and have slyly put me off, gucci manbags smh. I would absolutely blow my top if that happened to me but when the reality kicks in probably feel pretty deflated. The obvious prejudice against blacks and essex guys/scousers has been obvious for a minute now with all that no shuffle zone, ex-grime people stuff. Unfortunately house don't seem to like the working classes too much which is kind of the opposite of what it's all about.

 

Anyway I think the wackest part of all this is that it doesn't leave people with too many options, sometimes the only alternative is the vauxhall, coronet kinda tings which are good because it is obviously the only place you are gonna hear the productions played out by certain DJs or even hear them play, and even then you're not getting the full whack of diversity music wise, and when you combine that with certain elements of the crowd you have a lot of things working against those who love the music and are there to appreciate and have a good time.

 

If that was TL:DR then I said blame niggas.

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You reaching mint on sunday flo?

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local Newbie

local

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The thing is he owns WHP, Parklife, Outlook and Unknown festival. He puts on the biggest festivals about, but after seeing some of the sh*t he says and being treat like that at WHP I'm not going to anything he does. It might sound foolish but I just can't. I later found out he also owns the security company so no doubt has a lot of influence on the door policy. 

 

 

eeeesh man this guy is smashin it

 

not fair from ur perspective but the man is protecting his brands

 

im sure he knows what he's doin

 

this security firm.....jus white fellas?

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imhim Newbie

imhim

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this all sounds too but interesting

 

 

how can you turf people travelling 100+miles from a festival when they havent done anything... omg my heart wouldnt be able to handle it if that ever happened to me... what a waste of time and travel... and why... all because of my skin colour

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local Newbie

local

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yh i thought it was bad when i got booted from custard factory in brum on nye a few yrs back

 

coppers jus started turfing out any1 near the exit

 

obvs cos of black lads beefin

 

had to spend 80 quid on a 10 minute taxi journey back to cov

 

i was about 18/19 back then it was fortunate i even had the p

 

emailed em later on n got 6 free tix for an event of my choosing

 

never used em

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Guest freestacks

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I agree with a lot of this article tbh and couldnt agree more with flojo.

 

Been goin SPW since day dot and went my first WHP in 2008 and still to this day get interrogated on the way in.

 

My Boys got knocked back even with tickets on boxing night a few years back @ Sankeys and Ive only ever got in if I was with a female.

 

Last time I went Sankeys with a female and after gettin through 3 lots of security and bare screw facing bouncers, the promoter on the door wants the single me out amongst all the ket faced white yutes and ask me what DJs Id specifically came to see, after I answered he signaled to the head doorman that it was cool and they let me in.

 

Like flojo said I had to justify why I was there by diplaying my knowledge of the DJs that were on.

 

I only get this bullshit in England.

 

That is pretty much a carbon copy of what happened to me the first time I went to WHP.

 

Get to the front and the bouncer says to my boy aggressively "Who are you here to see?"

 

He's knowledgeable about the music but was caught off guard so he was speechless for a second. I stepped in and said Martinez Bros but he wouldn't let up until my boy said a few names, we got in but I was confused as f*ck as there were shitloads of people around us going in without being asked.

 

We went on NYD this year, between the two of us we spent £200 on tickets, petrol and hotel but were in and out of Manny within 1 hour because we got turfed.

 

Whilst we were waiting we had a few brief conversations with some randoms, one of which I'll never forget because he was a Spurs fan who had come straight from Old Trafford that was f*cked off his face on poppers, liquor and whatever else. I was looking at him thinking he aint getting in.

 

We get to the front and the bouncer asks us who we're here to see, we tell him. He asks where we came from, we tell him we've drove down from Bradford. He says no worries and lets us through but tells us to go to the side, my boy thought they were gonna put the sniffer dogs on us because they did it to him last time he went without me.

 

They just directed us towards the exit and said you can't get in because you've been acting suspicious in the queue. The guy who was off his nut and struggling to speak coherently got in FFS.

 

We are now outside with two tickets we've paid £100 for that are worthless and a hotel we've paid for that we don't need. There are about 15 people who've been turfed around the same time stood near us. 12 of them are black and they all got the same reason, the other 3 were white and had been caught with drugs on them when searched.

 

A white guy who's a tout outside WHP said to me barefaced 'did you get knocked back? These lot are racist as f*ck, I've seen the same thing outside here every week. Loads of black lads getting knocked back for no reason'

 

I then go on twitter and see the owner of WHP, Sacha talking about people with 'gucci man bags' not getting into WHP. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out what he means, I saw a lot of people get turned turned away but Gucci manbags isn't what they had in common. 

 

The thing is he owns WHP, Parklife, Outlook and Unknown festival. He puts on the biggest festivals about, but after seeing some of the sh*t he says and being treat like that at WHP I'm not going to anything he does. It might sound foolish but I just can't. I later found out he also owns the security company so no doubt has a lot of influence on the door policy. 

 

I am dying to see Pusha T at Parklife but I've decided I'm not going. There's a certain irony about a guy like Pusha T being on the lineup of an event put together by a company with a questionable door policy, if Pusha was trying to get in there's a fair chance he'd just be seen as another ni....person with a gucci manbag.

 

 

Well atleast you learned your lesson mate.

You should just stick to your comfort zone tbh.

Saves all the hassle and ill feeling.

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  1. Only person am waitin on to be added to parklife now is @AmineEdge. Do us a favour parklife

    Expand

     

     
  2.  

    @Ovojamie they dont book us cuz they find our image is too gangsta... im not jokin at all but its an amazing joke 1f602.png

    @Ovojamie and they book snoop dogg 1f602.png supid faggots
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Heero Yuy Newbie

Heero Yuy

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Flojo's reason why I can't even be bothered to chance it.

 

 

I  haven't been listening to house as long as you man, but the reason I initially signed up to VIP2 was for the house room back in 08, which is when I got into it. I can't be bothered to have to turn up to a club to explain why I want to listen to the music. Would rather just catch the DJ's are the smaller nights. Manchester on a whole is a f*cked place tbh, dunno about the people who live there, but out of town blacks being getting turned away from Manny venues since the dawn of time. 

 

I swear my barber has been rejected on 3 separate occasions.

 

I remember about 2/3 years ago, one of them team booked a table at Circle Club in Manchester. Slapped down 3-5k I think on the table, he specifically told the person at booking, we're out of towners (Brum, London, Liverpool), I have people booking hotels coming from everywhere, there's not going to be a problem? They were like no it's fine, just let them know who you are when you arrive, tell them you've paid for a table etc

 

No need to really tell you what happened when they all turned up.

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Seen this doing the rounds on Insta, not sure if it's real or not.

 

10424639_254437844743687_203680134_n.jpg

 

:lol:

 

real i think, seen a few tweets that say the same thing

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User Newbie

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Prob stepped up security after the brawl last year

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ag. Newbie

ag.

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guy in the white tee didnt want it

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Guest freestacks

Guest freestacks

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thats what you call a brawl yeah

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